They are desperate to be cool, it’s so cringe.
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I know it feels good to dunk on others and do so with generalities but just the last line, get revenge on the nerds.
Sounds edgy but it’s a slogan that is poor communication. It’s focused on US based tech billionaires and paints them as representatives of nerds. Look at voting data. Tech employees are leftist. People that go to school are more frequently leftist. Rhetoric like this is unintentionally anti-intellectual which promotes conservatism. And in my personal life, there sure seems to be an ocean of nerdy women in the US including in tech like bioengineering and UX and marketing design that is intertwined with today’s techno-facism. I don’t get why these pundits can’t ever stay focused on class warfare and end up resorting to social/racial/gender otherings. Why use language that is so so broad and is a term that most applies to people in your base
Also I’m at a loss at how finance/real estate/insurance/material and manufacturing billionaires have somehow managed to be overshadowed in public perceptions of evil even though they’ve consistently been at it for millenniums and are a cohort of multigenerational families of wealth built on slavery and genocide. They make up venture capital funds that give them ownership across all these companies. Tech CEOs end up owning an ever shrinking portion of a company they did or didn’t found until ownership is mostly a smattering of many large finance companies and family offices. Weirdly fetishistic of proper rich despots rather than these new tech billionaires who still have to go to JP Morgan Chase to facilitate their transactions
Also in the comments co-opting conservative rhetoric like herbivores and I guess carnivores?. That’s weird. Who actually talks like that seriously in real life? My whole life on the left we’ve been so terrible at creating insults but also terms of endearments. It’s weird how bad we are at not only labeling ourselves but also continuing to build terms into positives. Anything eventually becomes an insult towards leftist and conservative terminology is used awkwardly
For the side that places so much emphasis on the power of language, labeling, othering, etc … we’re terrible at it. The side of people with art/literature/communication/whatever degrees. Practically any college level degree is the realm of mostly leftist but in practice people well studied in communication can’t effectively and accurately communicate to people
Yup. The whole article and “we should bring back bullying” rhetoric (even used ironically) just reeks of someone who doesn’t like “uncool” people and finally found a morally valid excuse to hate on some of them.
Really, not much different from misogynists pointing at random female tiktok influencers and concluding “See? This is why women are dumb and we need sexism”.
It doesn’t matter if they’re nerds or not. What matters is where society is swaying to.
Ya but in discussion of the article, I don’t think it’s about the direction of society. It’s an article about people the author doesn’t like. How they classify them. And an empty call to action at the end to get revenge on nerds of which the author probably would be considered one. It’s a bad article
Purpose of the article, why does it exist and why does it have so many upvotes? Does the article help or harm the direction of society? Is it just an eloquent version of an Instagram comment dunking on people? What communication should be signal boosted that would be effective in driving action towards swaying society in a better direction
I think many people wouldn’t like to live under a “Nerd Reich”, so it’s only natural that there is a mainstream article against that. I’m assuming people who don’t understand anything about the technology that keeps their attention most of the time are concerned about the possibility. Society losing grip over itself, that is, language (social skills) not being the primary characteristic of the successful anymore. That is a blow conventional people won’t take easily.
This is something I observed regarding Trump in his first term, here this guy is allegedly super rich and now leader of the free world, and he still thinks he’s a total loser, hence his own inability to tolerate criticism, and obsession on harming enemies and bullying people.
He has to fuck other people’s wives and make John Kennedy Jr. eat McDonalds because even being President isn’t enough assertion of dominance to make him feel on top.
I have a tender self esteem, myself, and have deep-running neural pathways that will drive me nearly to self harm when I mess something up (e.g. drop my coffee, or burn dinner, or thoroughly lose my wallet). I have these structures of rational self-assessment so that when I calm down I can see I’m actually alright and have some sweet talents, and friends find me useful, and when not even that, at least lovable.
Trump with all his money and power doesn’t have that, and people like me can see Trump feels like a total loser propped up by hollow victories, even as POTUS, which is a fucking scary place to be. This is why cabinet meetings are a round-robin ritual of telling Trump how huge he is.
As for the tech bros, they succeeded in their careers which is exactly what we are taught manly men are supposed to do and still feel hollow (which is common when you fixate only on your career). They didn’t have that (possibly essential) experience where they collapse into despair as a young person and realize they need personal integrity or spirituality to climb out. (For me it was a moment of rational self-assessment and finding I was not wanting after all; that my depression and self hatred were based on delusions.)
As for Musk, his bio on Behind the Bastards suggests it’s really difficult for someone not to emerge from his upbringing without turning into a Disney / Marvel supervillain.
Thiel has his own backstory and obsession, and is perpetually feeling Death (his own mortality) chuffing hyperborean chills on the back of his neck.
So yes, these guys are desperate to cling to power, _because wealth and political transactional power are the only power they’ve ever known, hence J. D. Vance’s obsession on forcing women into natality which is likely to turn into Lebensborn style breeding programs (which inspired Atwood to write A Handmaid’s Tale. ) They are terrified of equality because then they’ll just be eccentric, antisocial dorks.
(I am an eccentric, antisocial dork, with few things to offer other than listening skills, peer psychology, computer nerding and moral philosophy, and in a world where we’re not all overwhelmed with bad news, that is more than enough to find friends, family and crew. But it takes some personal introspection and willingness to practice soft power to learn this.)
If they were able to step away from power, or we took it from them and forced them into peer group support, they’d eventually discover that they don’t need to be captains of industry (or James Bond supervillains) to be accepted and loved (and consequently, fed and homed by the community).
And when they’ve given you their all
Some stagger and fall, after all it’s not easy
Banging your heart against some mad bugger’s wallI agree completely and I’d like to add, when we call Trump a narcissist we should remember that what you described there is what narcissism is. It’s self hate manifesting as self aggrandizement.
I’ve worked hard to keep these kinds of men out of my personal life, to keep them away from me, out of my goddamn sight… It’s time for us to start getting revenge on the nerds.
And there’s the rub. I was there, and we still have the nerd-to-nazi pipeline pumping vast numbers of boys into the alt-right. And to this day, no-one wants to deal with them.
Curiously, Japan is entirely dissatisfied with herbivore men who just want to be left alone in their life with their waifu, but that doesn’t produce the next batch of cheap labor and soldiers for industrialists to exploit.
Yes, I’m bitter, and righteously so. Treat our kids better; acknowledge they have sexuality. Teach consent and human intercourse in public school. (We’re not going to do these things. We hold great contempt for our fifteen-year olds, whether men or women, and just can’t help ourselves.)
It’s true that we’ve gone from “oh good now it’s cool to be a nerd!” and rapidly progressed to “oh god the really bitter ones are using their success for revenge.” What’s wild is the image I have of an 80’s “reaganaut” (besides a bigot with bad taste) is someone who wants to be out and with people. They want a fuck ton of money to throw around in huge, public, ostentatious ways. These nerds are all obsessed with their fortresses of solitude. Like look even at your brolosopher grifters on the right - they live in sterile, expensive apartments. They never show themselves with people. They are offering this weird cult guru situation of “you don’t need people, you need my supplement and course and you will be a king like me.” Musk, Zuck, all those fucks (hyuk hyuk hyuk) believe and feed into this shit.
Now they’re mainstreaming eugenics and it’s getting really bad.
In the 1980s, being a nerd meant being a target for bullies, and we didn’t fare too well. The nerd hierarchy (in which the tech nerds looked down on Trekkies and Furries) was rather brutal, and informs why the furry / otherkin moral panic is mixed in with the trans moral panic.
Eventually, every company needed an MIS and nerds showed they were useful after all. This is not the good ending.
A parallel problem came from young people having libidos that no-one was allowed to acknowledge. We were all incels before the term, and they tried to teach me math when my brain was telling me I needed to rut. Even today, society disregards horny teens, creating a wide pathway to the Alt-Right (Immortan Joe’s Warboys) who respect only Alpha Males. Our Christian-centric sex-negative culture fuels the young-men-to-Nazi pipeline.
I don’t have a solution for it. The common response to horny-teens-gone-white-supremacists is to say yeah, fuck those guys in total contempt, so they’re going to continue to be an available and eager force of militants and voters for any charismatic strongman. They may go Herbivore (like Japanese men) once Generative AI porn gets good.
I’ll be the first to say millennials have a lot of bullshit and a high opinion of themselves, but something was cracked that made it so most of the white men of our generation aren’t complete total fuckwads who want to stomp marginalized people. If I remember correctly the majority of white male millennials (55%?) broke for Harris. We need to figure out what the fuck was happening at the time, cause I think it’s a lot more than just “Obama.” A ton of us came into the economy at a terrible time with the housing crisis. We were the generation of unpaid interns. But we didn’t go all gestures to musk and trump
Leaded petrol exposure
I’m not even joking.
deleted by creator
But Gen Z white men broke for Trump.
Oh god no, this has fuck all to do with being a nerd, the author’s overreliance on a film reference not withstanding.
Social netwok had the right of it
for those who missed the reference
In general, nerds have a history of being treated badly, bullied even, by the people you are talking about.
They arent around people because people harm them more than help them.
I remember the game Bully extended this take. The main character has no beef with the nerds, and helps them, but they still extend their victim complex to him and antagonize him.
Basically, it’s a problem with using the generalized word “people” in statements like that.
I think that’s a rather simplistic explanation tbh. There is literally a bro culture now about basically grafting capitalism onto self care that really fosters this shit too.
Yeah i’m really disappointed in how many people are taking the most facile reading of this.
This isn’t about nerds. It’s about capitalist arseholes.
Its not like they made the country antiintellectual, ppl hate when someone knows more than them and refuse to change their views, they just assume they are in the right and double down
The saying money can’t unlame you still true.
I don’t know if anyone else has noticed this but everything seems to be going down the tubes quite fast.
Yeah like having to accept all cookies to read the article.
Block third-party scripts, no cookie popup.
I will be happy if Zuck is Luigi’d before my death. Also Musk and Bozo.
I hope you aren’t from the US because that’s surely gonna put you on a NSA list
I have listened to MAGA pray for liberals deaths. I’m just saying it would be funny if they got luigi’d before my own death. I’m not calling for someone to do it. Unlike MAGA.
NSA take note, we can Luigi you too. Sit back and let the oppressors perish and it will stop with them.
Fuck the NSA
I wouldn’t worry about the list. We are all on it by now anyway.
I’m not from the US and didn’t plan to visit anytime soon anymore so I don’t mind, just reminding others.
Trump is scaling back the NSA and CIA isn’t he?
Every major politician in the USA has major financial backers with their own agendas that they purchase through superPAC contributions and by funding re-election campaigns. It’s been the ruling oligarchy my whole life and I’m middle aged. Pretending it’s different or worse now is disingenuous.
Your statement reminds me of entrepreneurship: you’ve got a dream, a vision, a goal to improve people’s lives. What you don’t got is enough money to get your dream into the hands of people it will help. So, you go in search of people with money who honestly don’t give a damn about your dream, they just want to know how it’s going to get them more money, which they already have in abundance but somehow feel the need to continue to grow their hoard. They want to see business plans, with exit strategies. They want to maximize ROI, minimize (monetary) risk, minimize time to market - and those are the criteria your pitch will be evaluated on relative to all the others they receive all the time.
Politicians aren’t selling a business plan, they’re selling a legislative agenda. They don’t have to show ROI, they have to show low-cost electability.
It is worse now, at least the legal money side.
Citizens United removed the limits on the international money as well as the domestic money.
Why is the countey tearing itself apart? Because the foreign money has interest in weakening, stealing, amd profiteering from the USA.
Conversely, the domestic money wants to keep the domestic part from falling completely apart; at least until the real estate, votes, and grant money for the revitalization project are all lined up.
This movie hasn’t aged well, for anyone who hasn’t seen it.
It was cringe when it released - it’s dated cringe now…
The thing they all share is that they are deeply unloved. Trump, musk, bezos, zuck, none of them have healthy loving families. They have noons they can genuinely connect with. And they all think by having more money and being more popular will fulfill that human need. But it never does, so they just keep going not realizing the path they chose doesn’t end anywhere near what they desire. Money will never buy love and peace.
That’s a tired stereotype. Powerful people are unloved because they don’t need to be loved. They are psychopaths, they have all the love they need, they are bored with the world and have nothing more to want.
People around you are unloved because they have problems.
Also money can buy you a cottage surrounded by nice trees near a river, healthy food, more house animals than you could want, a fast PC, jasmine and lilac bushes outside your window.
I think it can go a long way.
My irritation from this stereotype is because it kinda says the opposite of what it says. It feels like sublimated envy, expressed by saying that you don’t envy them. Why talk about their money at all then.
I wouldn’t envy anyone’s money if that’s all the difference between us, unfortunately money buys power and power is used to impose one’s will upon me, and that I very much care about.
But your typical young Trotskyists in the Interwebs write whole articles consisting of Marxist vibes (a strong thing, especially in spring, but not enough) and envy to those having more. LOL, someone having more money is not our problem. Our problem is someone attacking us with it.
People not accepting that other people got a easier time doing certain things than others is certainly a problem, but too much blaming isn’t good as well.
While this is a fresh perspective of the trope, there is very significant evidence that becoming rich is a predictor of early death and depression, presumably due to how hard it becomes to connect to people. Normal people need money to eat and live, and handle it like the privilege it is. It is synonymous with survival for most people. It’s no wonder at all to me why the oligarchs has been naturally selected to be psychopaths. All other people die. A select few give it away and devote themselves to reintegrate back to humanity but those are very few and far between.
What? It’s literally the opposite. Do you remember the discovery that owning horses extends your lifespan by several years, not for any merit of its own, but because it strictly excludes the poor and most of the middle class?
The more money you have, the healthier you are, the longer you live, and the happier you tend to be. It’s straight propaganda that being rich is somehow a burden or requires people of exceptional mental strength to struggle on.
You’re right, I had only read a few studies and they were focused on sudden wealth. In general, it is neither a predictor or inverse predictor of depression. As you get poor and have to struggle, of course that is a predictor of bad health and sudden changes both up and down is indicated to form depression
And they all think by having more money and being more popular will fulfill that human need.
If that was all it was, then I’d feel sorry for them. No, they’re trying to fulfill that need by being Great Men of History with Mighty Plans, but their Mighty Plans are all terrible, because they’re horrible people.
Yeah, I think it’s a mistake to imagine that these are good people who just need a little love. There are literally hundreds of millions of people who aren’t getting enough love for proper human flourishing and it’s not like that turned them all into fascists. The kind of evil exhibited by these people must be attributed to a fundamental enjoyment of the suffering of others.
Well statistically about 30% of people worldwide don’t mind fascism so that’s hundreds of millions of people too. I’m not sure I’d be willing to say a lack of loving relationships is the primary cause of that but I doubt solving that problem would hurt.
Where are you getting that statistic from?
There are different studies which show a shockingly high percent of the population are fools but the most compelling is the one by Cambridge Analytica which found a population cluster in Facebook’s massive amount of user data. They called this the average cluster.
The Republicans targeted this group in the 2016 election. Around 30 percent of the b population fall into this group.
I don’t recall if this is where I originally heard it but it gives you a place to start: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/02/28/who-likes-authoritarianism-and-how-do-they-want-to-change-their-government/
I wouldn’t challenge this view for Musk, Bezos, Trump. But Zuck gives me more of a “reformed (now married) incel that comes from an otherwise normal family environment vibe”. His marriage seems at least typical, likely loving etc.
His product happens to be the most harmful for democracy and I consider him equal for worst of the bunch as a result, but I think it’s explained by corporate/personal greed and being out of touch with reality.
“The average American, I think has, I think it’s fewer than three friends. Three people that they consider friends.”
This is Zuckerberg, claiming it’s normal not just to have only 3 friends, but fewer than 3. This is telling on yourself even more than “Women’s orgasms aren’t real because no woman I’ve ever been with has had an orgasm.”
If he counts his wife in that list of “fewer than 3 friends”, how many friends does he actually have? I get that being ultra rich means that often you can’t be sure who’s actually your friend, and who’s just there for the money. But, still, he should at least be able to count a handful of friends. I’ve known my 2 best friends since before I was 5 years old. Surely if Zuck had a normal childhood, he should have people who were his friends long before he got rich, who he can be sure aren’t just there for his money. If he doesn’t, it strongly suggests he was either a pretty awful kid, or he led a really weird life growing up and was isolated from anybody who could have become a friend.
He wants to be Augustus Caesar. That’s not “normal loving relationship” behavior.
No amount of money and power will ever scratch their itch
I read some books by Alice Miller that discussed some childhoods of authoritarian rulers and they were all of unloved. They had not one adult stick up for them, be their advocate or helper, during their childhood years.
Many of us as children have been unwanted or unloved by our caregivers. Most of us had at least one adult: an uncle, grandmother, teacher etc, who truly tried to help at least once.
What the monsters in history had in common is an absence of evidence of even that happening for them. And their revenge as adults was terrible.
Man, I should have became an authoritarian ruler.
Instead I became isolated and I haven’t had a visitor in over a decade.
Fuck it. Vote for theangryseal!
For real though, maybe if I hadn’t ever used drugs haha. I had a lot of “friends” when I was living in that world. Might have stopped me. :p
not realizing the path they chose doesn’t end anywhere near what they desire
It’ll end where they deserve though. Alone, despised and empty. No amount of money or stupid blue checkmarks will ever change that.
It might end with them realizing the truth, but it’ll be as they’re surrounded by the ashes of our civilizations and bodies.
Money will never buy love and peace.
True enough.
But, in the broken psyches of the ones you’ve mentioned, it buys perfectly serviceable alternatives which they can convince themselves actually does make them happy.
They are so broken that broken solutions actually work for them…
🤷♂️ 🤡 🖕
Looks like autocorrect did ya dirty.
No one >> noons
Don’t try and downplay the affect of connecting with noons on the human psyche. They are an evil scourge and should be eradicated. This is exactly the kind of thing a noon would post.
What’s wrong with Zuck’s family?
I read the first chapter of Careless People last night and I never thought these people were such large dorks, but here we are.
Awesome discussion.
Imagine if, when Facebook rolled out, people were just like “no thanks, I’m good” and it never took off.
That’s exactly what happens when a Facebook competitor (possibly an ethical one) rolls out these days. Which is part of the problem. Zuck poisoned the idea.
Friendica exists, and it’s part of the Fediverse. It’s not going anywhere.
Dead things can’t, in fact, go anywhere.
I wanted to. I liked Myspace. It has character. Some of it was cringe. But you could at least customize it. Facebook seemed so bland. But I had an ex GF that insisted on it and I didn’t think it was worth breaking up over. I shouldn’t have been such a pushover.
I stayed on Myspace long past when the majority jumped ship. It eventually lost what made it special when the boy band guy bought it to twist it into something more music focused. But I still preferred it to the sterile, uniformity of Facebook.
You would break up over switching online platforms?
Nothing like that. It was more like she was insistent and I didn’t feel like it was a hill to die on at the time.
It sounds ridiculous now with everything that’s happened in social media in the meantime, but I can see that being a thing in 2006 when the vibe of social media was very different to what it’s become now. Back then it was just a tidy little PHP site for you to chat and share photos with friends and family on. Literally nothing appeared in your feed that wasn’t a post from a Friend. It was basically a Whatsapp group with a photo gallery feature.
Since Facebook didn’t have the baggage it has now, it’s much easier to read refusing to join your girlfriend’s circle of friends and family back then as a wider rejection of her as a person, same as if you refused to join her family Whatsapp/Telegram/whatever group chat.
I’m not taking her side here, but I wanted to give a bit of perspective for people looking at it through the lens of 2025.
I’m assuming the GF would break up with OP over it. Which is itself a big red flag.
Edit: fwiw, it does seem like there is quite a bit of drama and bullshit over choice of phone (Android vs Apple)
I used to hate the Android vs Apple drama vis à vis romantic partner choice, but then I realized that it’s in itself a great filter of people I don’t want in my life
when a guy that blocked her, she looked around as she thought people were listening to her.
I remember LiveJournal as something good. I wouldn’t use it, but felt a bit like Telegram today, except without Telegram, which is a good thing.
It was, until the events of the mid-2010s when most of the science fiction fandom community quit it and went over to Facebook, presumably because that was more convenient (i.e. on it already) than going to e.g. Dreamwidth (a LJ-alike that is still going). It operated in a very similar way to FB but somehow much more focussed maybe because it never got the ‘businesses having pages on there’ bit. Those of my friends who were on both, often used FB more as an events calendar than all-around social media.
He’s such a fucking dork.
No one seems to have read Machiavelli’s stuff these days. It explains so much. Also, just history in general will tell you all about today’s happenings.
The Prince was a warning of what could happen. The Drumpf is the result of ignoring the warnings.
