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A post on Ask Lemmygrad by user Cyber Ghost titled “What are the reasons why Russia attacked Ukraine?”
Below is the comment by user @cfgaussian reading: “The Nazi Kiev regime attacked the ethnically Russian Donbass for eight years intending to commit genocide in their quest for an ethnically pure Ukraine and Russia finally came to their aid after it became clear that the Minsk agreements were never going to be honored. Also, NATO was turning Ukraine into a hyper militarized threat to the integrity and security of Russia itself. Refusal of the US and Europe to negotiate on a new inclusive security framework, refusal to stop NATO expansion eastward, and the relentless and violent anti-Russian psychosis that has gripped Ukraine since the Maiden coup that triggered a civil war in a country in which half or more of the population are essentially Russian became intolerable.”
User Summertime Soviet has replied to the comment saying "It’s a shame we can’t pin comments on posts, because this one would get a pin from me.
so instead, have this Farmer_Heck seal of approval"
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“They had to invade! Ukraine forced them to!”
Great argument.
Isn’t this the literal reason the Nazis, as in, the actual Nazis, gave to justify their invasion of Alsace and Lorainne? That their friendly ethnicities were being discriminated there, and that they had to invade to save them?
Same with the Sudentland in Czechoslovakia.
And same with Poland. The nazis dressed up some convicts in German border guard uniforms, then killed them, took photographs of their corpses and used as one of their excuses to attack (they also blamed Poland for murdering German ethnicities in Poland of course).
Do not compare any glorious people’s republic to Nazi Germany otherwise you get called a Holocaust denier.
One of the Hexbears spazzed out at me when I said the NKVD, like the Gestapo, did horrific things. I was genuinely confused…
Oh God you said it. If the name that shall not be named is repeated twice more, thou shalt summon thy horde!
Eh they’ll get banned fast
Yeah noticed that one of the spazzers who has too much time on their hands has been running around throwing a link about Holocaust denial around like they found us breaking a class rule and are going to tell a teacher.
They really just want an authority in control to tell them what to do and will side with the bullies since they think that will make the pain stop. Cowards. I get it but they are cowards.
Exactly. They are mad about the world but won’t do anything about it other than wait for the revolution to come like it’s the second coming of Christ. They are mad about the status quo and want to make others pay for it, even potential allies who agree in a lot of aspects.
Don’t worry this is a lemmy.world community, that means that most hexbear users won’t even see this post due to it not being available in their instance.
Maybe some of them will create alts on other instances to see and reply to this content, but the ones who spam like they do on hexbear are very likely to get banned quickly for doing this from other instances.
You don’t understand. Nazi’s had to invade other countries because they were becoming infested with Nazis. Nazis were the problem and the solution! /s
Alsace and Lorainne
Don’t think it was the reason there, since France and the UK declared war on Germany after they invaded Poland, so they didn’t need a reason. However the Nazis used this line of argument against pretty much every neighbouring country. Especially with Poland which had a huge German population on the territory annexed after the first world war, and against Czechoslovakia it was indeed the cited casus belli.
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“How could you blame him? Look at how she’s dressed!”
“Look at what you made me do to you” is classic abuser logic.
Does that mean that seeing satellite images of Russia grouping forces along the border would give a perfectly acceptable reason for Ukraine to invade Russia, because Russia turned the border into a hyper militarized threat? Using their own logic on them.
Sounds like the China fans with Taiwan. ‘They actually want to be part of the PRC they just dont know it yet’
‘Those ukrainians are basically already Russian so its fine’
This is a screenshot from lemmygrad. Those people are the China fans you’re referring to, it’s all the same group of people.
Had a, uh, discussion with lemmygrad where apparently wanting high speed rail without secret police and genocide is a controversial take. It was a post kind of half celebrating the atrocities of communist regimes. Only for lemmygrad users to turn around and tell me that those things never happened, but they were totally justified and ought to happen again, but communists don’t do that kind of thing and it’s all made up propaganda, unless you’re a capitalist or a liberal or [someone else who deserves it]. There were a few interesting and intelligent lines of thought in that whipping circle I found myself a part of, and I was glad for those, but generally the ideological spin was going so fast, you just about had to slap a tail rotor on it.
You’d think it would give a person pause when in the course of defending their political beliefs, they manage to post a single comment that contains four or five lines, almost verbatim, from the Narcissist’s Prayer.
But it never seems to.
It’s because a lot of them seem to want secret police first and high speed rail second.
State socialists have some reasonable explanations for the authoritarian aspects of the USSR and sometimes China but they’re so easily provoked (online) it’s hard to find them in the flood of reactionary dumbassery going on around it. Don’t take this as a defense of state socialism. It’s not. But their logic has some merit if you believe a state is a necessary institution in a socialist/communist society
Yes, I found that to very much be the case with lemmygrad.
I know amount of explaining that NATO is a defence alliance seems to to work.
NATO exists because of Russian aggression. If they stopped trying to attack every country touching there borders it would be fine and NATO wouldn’t need to exist.
I mean there’s a case to be made that NATO expansionism is bad and does have a destabilizing effect and that trying to isolate the region for what may be mostly historical reasons isn’t really helping in the grand scheme of things.
Then Russia goes and threatens to invade Finland or something and it’s like “oh yeah, that’s why”.
I just loved all the people who were going “Russia respects borders and doesn’t invade other countries” when they had tried literally the exact same thunder run strategy with Georgia not that long before Ukraine.
Russian propaganda literally says that “Russia has no borders”
Yeah, raping and killing your own people is totally fine! …Ohwait, no, it isn’t.
Do they realise they use the same exact excuse Hitler used to occupy czechoslovakia?
No of course not because not a single one of them has a clue what they’re talking about, and has never studied history or politics.
To them everything is black and white. You are either an insane tanky or you’re an evil Nazi, and there’s no other option. There’s definitely no normal people, since they see themselves as the normal people.
I think most of it is chronically online 17 year olds that have had their brains so borked by the american two party system and political climate being so volitile. They’ve grown up in a world where its us vs them, im always right you’re always wrong, I can do no wrong and you can do no good, etc. So when they learn that the USA kinda (really) sucks, it fucks with their head and they start thinking “the other side” is right.
Yes, the USA government is grossly corrupt by corporate money and the media is compliant, has taken part in imperialist conquest, and has lied about its own history. But that does not make Russia/China ANY BETTER.
I would rather live in the USA than Russia/China in a heartbeat, even with USA’s problems (there are a lot) because at least I can say “Fuck the usa, death to America” without being erased from the timeline by secret police.
It would be interesting to conduct a poll to find out where they’re all from. I suspect there aren’t for example a lot of German or French Tankies because that would require an impressive amount of self-delusion on their part.
Never underestimate the amount that people can delude themselves, after all there were covid deniers who saw people around them dying from covid and still denied it to the end.
The ability to exist between concepts and except the gray reality of the world seems to be a specialized skill on the Internet that mostly has you hated by both sides…
It’s fucking awful how sided people are on topics that they don’t even understand because they are massive complex worldly issues. Like most of things are but we really do suck at complex thought as a species.
This is militaristic copy pasta.
Your mistake was looking at anything related to lemmygrad
Not gonna lie I do sometimes read it for brain fucking fun lmao
you have a very different idea of fun to me 😅😬
That’s a lot of Copium.
More ethnic russians in Germany than in Ukraine, this is clearly an overreach by NATO
You forgot the /s (although it’s obvious it’s sarcasm)
What a dumbass.
isnt it donbass or something?
bah-don-bass
Errrr bah-dum-tssshh sorry.
OG OP actually asked a good question. Aside from regional cultural claims and geopolitical military perks Ukraine also holds massive significance for its ports, grain production, and the oil pipeline that crosses from Russia to Western Europe.
Not condoning Russia’s actions, from it, but if they had managed to get away with it they’d be in a vastly better position on the world’s stage.
Yeah it’s a good question, but asking it in lemmygrad it’s like asking the meaning of life from a dog. At best you get unintelligible barking.
That’s what I don’t get. All these tankie morons are hiding behind the flimsiest of “Nazi persecution” lies. Ukraine is just flat out amazing for Russia strategically, it’s very clear what they wanted. Not to mention some fat ore reserves they have parked in the ground for burgeoning industries.
But no, it has to be Nazis and Western agendas while they bomb schools and residential neighborhoods with these extremely accurate bombs they possess but choose not to use…
Because propaganda dictates that you need to the moral high ground in war. Else its very difficult to sell to your soldiers the idea of dying in foreign land.
And that propaganda seems to be awfully effective, judging from lemmygrand and hexbear comments (even though I am pretty sure some of those users do not really believe it, but are paid to write those comments)
Some of the users are probably like greentext flatearthers, simple unpaid trolls trying to see who can come up with the biggest bullshit… they just happen to be useful fools for the propaganda machine.
I don’t get why bots have to be part of the argument. People being stupid or having a backwards political agenda is a valid and sufficient explanation when talking about the right. We tend to forget that Lemmy is more like the backrooms of the internet than a politically relevant platform and dedicating bots or paid trolls for such a small community seems a little exaggerated to me. Fringe parts of the internet are far easier to sway with a small group of obnoxious people than, say, Reddit.
I can understand Russia not being excited about the prospects of a NATO ally being on their border, but their own actions drive Ukraine towards NATO.
Also the whole Nazi thing is pretty stupid. It’s not like Ukraine holds a patent on neo nazis. Most Western countries have them even countries like Germany that have outlawed them, and Russia does too.
Russia already has what, four or five NATO members states on their doorstep: The Balkan states, now Finland, Turkey is pretty close and controls the Bosporus… and Poland borders Belarus which is a client state of Russia now.
Yeah Russian has taken some major Ls in that department recently. Russia’s strategy historical was to have buffer states so they had room to fall back before their enemies reach anything they cared about. Now with Finland NATO could line tanks up to roll into Saint Petersburg if a war ever broke out.
That isn’t even the dumbest thing Russia has claimed. They also said that they invaded Ukraine because it was full of… Satanists.
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Blah blah blah…What being an agent for the Russian state on social media does to your brain.
ftfy
What… did I just read? 😳
Archer gif “Idiots, doing idiot things, because they’re idiots”
Funny considering that our former Wagner chef himself said that the whole 2014 pretext was bullshit. Also funny because one of the groups that Russia used since 2014 in that region is Rusich, a very obvious neonazi group. So Ukraine was fighting Nazis all along.
“violent anti-Russian psychosis”? Psychosis? Really?
The majority of the time, I try to understand the perspective of my opponents. Unfortunately, there are times (like now) that I’m afraid attempting to understand will only expose me to hatred, ignorance, and false information. For example, I have no idea what the “Maidan coup” allegedly was, and I refuse to look it up. It might even be a real historical event documented by reputable sources, but I’m not wasting my time finding out. (That isn’t a dare. I don’t want anyone reading this to search it, either.)
Maidan revolution/coup was a real thing. In 2014, protests against then-President Viktor Yanukovic’s decision to abandon a legislative agreement with the EU and instead join Russia culminated in Yanukovic fleeing to Russia and a number of definitely-not-Russian soldiers storming into Crimea. It really can be considered the flashpoint that started the current round of Russia-Ukraine hostilities.
Wikipedia gives the Ukrainian version https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity
Ah, okay. Thanks!
“Maidan coup” or better known as euromaidan. Very short summary is that elected president turned coats to lick Putin’s shoes and got replaced.
Tankies refer to this as a coup organized by NATO or CIA or something lmao
They generally seem to claim it was a fascist/Nazi western lead coup.
Oh man if you want a great documentary on Euromaidan, I strongly recommend you watch “Winter on Fire.” Pretty sure it’s still on Netflix and the footage is just incredible.
It is. I just added it to my list this afternoon. Thanks!
Do these people live in one of the affected countries or are they looking at it from the outside? Are they serious or are they just trolling?
If I had to guess, majority is from English speaking countries
I mean… That’s certainly a world view.
Putin’s worldview to be more specific.
Yes, it’s funny/sad how the commenter basically writes a carbon copy of the worldview of russian propaganda machine. What a coincidence.
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