This meme is from 2004. History repeats itself.

    • @matcha_addictOP
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      5 months ago

      It’s important to note that the real disparity may be even far worse.

      OCHA-OPT (the committee gathering this data) is strict about verifying validity of Palestinian casualties, requiring two independent, verified and non-affiliated sources. Casualties in Israel, however, they trust the media at face value. They also exclude a lot of Palestinian casualties even when verified in certain situations. Example, and I quote them:

      People who were killed or injured in conflict-related incidents that took place in Israel and did not involve residents of the oPt are also excluded.

      oPt (occupied Palestinian territories) are the areas that Israel does not directly oversee. So most of Israel is not oPt by their criteria.

      Israel is notorious for restricting journalists reporting on Israeli crimes, and has murdered journalists countless of times, like last year the Christian Palestinian Shireen Abu Akleh reporting on the forced expulsion of Palestinians from Sheikh Jarrah (so not even in a war zone area). This causes many casualties to go unverified and thus undocumented.

      And Israel has been caught lying before about its own casualties, like the 40 beheaded babies.

      Take that as you will.

        • @winterayars@sh.itjust.works
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          45 months ago

          They’ve got a long road ahead of them to kill that many people but i admit the thought occurred to me as well. There does seem to be a ratio being followed here.

          • @matcha_addictOP
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            15 months ago

            Given Israel’s rhetoric, they are literally letting us know the number will climb much higher. But the West is too busy condemning Hamas, and will sponsor yet another genocide in the modern era.

    • @wantd2B1ofthestrokes@discuss.tchncs.de
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      5 months ago

      Definitely helps that Hamas uses the Palestinian people as human shields launching rockets from schools and hospitals.

      Just stop and consider the psyche that takes. You have to 1) be completely willing to sacrifice the most vulnerable of your own people and 2) admit that your enemy doesn’t want to kill those same people. Imagine how things may go if Israel attempted to use Jews as human shields against Hamas.

      This isn’t the Palestinian people “resisting”, it’s their batshit “government” that would kill us all if they had their way, killing as many people as they can regardless of whether it actually helps the cause of their people.

      There is no doubt the Israeli government has and continues to commit war crimes. But supporting or justifying Hamas is just insane.

      • @Jaccident@lemm.ee
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        15 months ago

        Didn’t look like you’re replying to anyone supporting Hamas.

        Also, there is an alternative #2 in your scenario. “Know your enemy would lose too much western support too readily if they were to fine on all the civilian targets they would like to”.

      • @matcha_addictOP
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        -15 months ago

        Imagine how things may go if Israel attempted to use Jews as human shields against Hamas.

        You mean like putting many settlements and civilians right on the border of Gaza, a concentration camp and active war Zone? Or allowing a rave dance to occur at the gates of a concentration camp and active war zone, and next to a military base that would be targeted by Hamas? And sprinkle in some IDF tanks while you’re at it.

        Wait, we don’t have to imagine it.

        • @wantd2B1ofthestrokes@discuss.tchncs.de
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          5 months ago

          Literally ever Jewish person in Israel would be dead tomorrow if Hamas has the military power of Israel. And the next day they would move on to genocide against some other group that doesn’t ascribe to their deranged world view. I cannot understand how Israel being awful blinds people to how much worse Hamas is.

          • @matcha_addictOP
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            15 months ago

            Can you please actually address my comment that you’re responding to? I was talking about Israel using human shields. You’re bringing up an entirely new argument that’s unrelated. Unless you mean that Israel is justified using human shields?

            • @wantd2B1ofthestrokes@discuss.tchncs.de
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              5 months ago

              You said we don’t need to imagine it. I think you do.

              You are equating people living in settlements near Gaza with firing rockets from schools and hospitals. Do I really need to respond to that?

              • @matcha_addictOP
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                15 months ago

                We don’t have to imagine it because it is already happening, and I gave you the example.

                You are equating people living in settlements near Gaza with firing rockets from schools and hospitals

                You do realize those Israeli settlements have schools and hospitals too, right? They held a rave dance surrounded by IDF tanks. But I understand you already made up your mind.

                • @wantd2B1ofthestrokes@discuss.tchncs.de
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                  5 months ago

                  We know Hamas explicitly wants to kill all of the Jews in Israel. They have told us this explicitly, many times. How would Israel using human shields make ANY sense? Was there an attack launched from the dance rave you claim happened ? As Hamas launches their attacks from the schools and hospitals? Why the fuck would anyone attend this? Do you see how this makes absolutely no sense

                  They are not launching attacks from their schools and hospitals. And have an advanced defense system to protect themselves.

  • Queen HawlSera
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    1085 months ago

    It isn’t anti-Semitism to criticize israel, it’s just noticing the obvious.

  • @Anamana@feddit.de
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    995 months ago

    I’m mostly pro Palestine, but using this picture with the subtitle ‘history repeats itself’ and therefore portraying what happened at the festival, and the other slaughter missions as a tiny goofy missile, feels kinda disproportionate. Don’t you think?

    • @MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      No. Hundreds of thousands will die in response to hundreds dying. The comic is still fully accurate even if “a single missile” is still condemnable.

        • @explodicle@local106.com
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          105 months ago

          I felt just like this after 9/11. I don’t know enough about your country to tell you what the right thing to do is. But I wish that the USA could go back in time and just gradually assassinate Al Queda with the CIA instead or something. Those occupations were doomed from the start.

          • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆
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            215 months ago

            The CIA is literally the reason the Al Queda exists. has consistently been the biggest force funding and training terrorists groups around the world. Al Queda is just the modern iteration on the Mujahideen whom US was propping up in the 80s.

            • KNova
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              105 months ago

              Yup. Listen to the latest season of Blowback podcast. CIA sheltered/evacuated a bunch of Al Quaeda leaders right before the invasion of Afghanistan began.

          • @winterayars@sh.itjust.works
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            25 months ago

            The US government at the time did not want to do any such thing. Project For A New American Century, the think tank most of the Bush administration officials came from, openly wrote about how they were hoping for a “new Pearl Harbor” they could use to take the US into war with Iraq. Later, President Bush got a memo about how Al Qaeda was going to attack the US mainland and he did nothing. Then 9/11 happened and the government lied the country into a war with Iraq. What part of this makes you think they were going to do anything about Al Qaeda (other than giving them more funds maybe)?

      • @datelmd5sum@lemmy.world
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        -85 months ago

        I don’t think disproportionate response doctrine from countries like the US and Israel should come as a surprise after more than half a century of conflict. Why murder 100 innocent people of your opponent when you know they will murder 1000 innocents of your people in response?

        • It may not be a surprise but it’s still disgusting and worth calling out.

          Take 9/11 for an example, in response to a few thousand dying, America invaded Iraq (who was not even responsible) and killed several orders of magnitude more people. As well as looting their wealth, subordinating their government and economy to American interests, and effectively occupying them for two decades. Anytime an American says “never forget” they should be reminded how thoroughly soaked in blood they are.

          Likewise, when zionists shed crocodile tears for a few hundred dead festival goers who were depraved enough to go raving only a few short kilometers from the world’s largest concentration camp. They must be reminded of what they have done to Palestine. Invasion. Displacement. Occupation. Ethnic cleansing. Apartheid. Imprisonment. Genocide.

      • @Anamana@feddit.de
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        -85 months ago

        I’m not talking about who shoots the biggest rockets and who kills more people here. I’m talking about portraying a literal slaughter fest as a tiny lil rocket, mosquito sting or whatever, which causes no harm at all. This is not the right comic & subtitle to show what happened ‘today’. At least in my opinion. Because it’s not disproportionate to what happened.

        But feel free to disagree, it you think it is. To me OP is more or less mocking the victims and I find it distasteful. Especially because people were involved, who weren’t even culturally part of this ethnical conflict in the first place.

        And no I’m not part of team both sides bad, because this conflict involves more than two sides and in the end people in Gaza suffer the most.

        • @matcha_addictOP
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          185 months ago

          Where did I mock the victims? Do not put words in my mouth. Can you not make a half-sound argument without lying?

          • @Anamana@feddit.de
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            5 months ago

            By disproportianting what happened. How you can not see that is beyond me. Just try to reflect on what you posted. Slaughtering hundred civilians = tiny mosquito rocket.

            ‘History repeats itself’… but this level didn’t happen before.

            • @GitProphet@lemmy.sdfeu.org
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              5 months ago

              From what I can see, @matcha_addict@lemy.lol is not mocking the victims of this tragedy, but rather criticising the media for writing about the israeli deaths caused by the hamas attack, yet hardly making a sound about the palestine deaths caused by israel.

        • @MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          It IS NOT a disproportionate representation. THAT’S THE POINT.

          I am very sorry you fail to realize what death Israel will doll out in response, but this comic is completely accurate in the proportions displayed.

          You LITERALLY have fighter jets and bombers striking back against … paragliders with guns…

          Again, NO ONE except fucking losers are saying Hamas did anything good. That doesn’t make murdering dozens of thousands of Palestinians OK.

        • FaceDeer
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          175 months ago

          So anyone who follows the Geneva Conventions is a doomed fool?

    • @matcha_addictOP
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      305 months ago

      “history repeats itself” as in the people who only condemn needless killing when Hamas does it, but ignore the Palestinian cause the rest of the time.

      • DarkGamer
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        -295 months ago

        It’s almost like motivation, methods, intentions, and circumstances matter and not just body count. For example, intentionally targeting civilians to maximize civilian deaths is not the same as accidentally killing civilians with collateral damage while trying to minimize civilian deaths.

        • @money_loo@1337lemmy.com
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          5 months ago

          Guess which side this is, then:

          Scores of people, mainly women and children, have been killed in multiple air strikes on the main road connecting north and south Gaza, as people carried out an Israeli order to flee their homes.

          According to the Ministry of Health, at least 70 people have been killed in three separate air strikes on the road, with the latest killing at least 40.

          The Israeli army said in a statement on Friday that civilians must leave Gaza City in the north, and that they would not be allowed to return “until we say so” and until “a statement is issued allowing this”.

          However, locals have reported a number of attacks on the Salah al-Din Road since then. Survivors, speaking to local media, implored others not to make the journey for fear of being targeted by the Israelis.

          “Do not leave,” a distraught survivor of the attacks told local media.

          “They bombed the convoy. They bombed it on Salah al-Din Road. They bombed the ambulances.”

          Another survivor said the attacks were a “direct targeting of women and children”.

          “I was in the truck. There were about 200 people. 90 percent were women and children. We took the main road that the entire world knew we were taking. My entire family were with me. Out of nowhere, they dropped a bomb. Everything was black and I lost conscience for 10 mins,” they told local media.

          “When I woke up I saw a mother lying with her baby, whose brain was right next to him. I heard the ambulances then they bombed again. I took cover and after a few minutes tried to check the damage, then they bombed again.”

        • @matcha_addictOP
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          335 months ago

          When Israeli soldiers are bragging about raping and torturing people, it’s very clear what their intentions are

          • DarkGamer
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            5 months ago

            Source?

            That’s troubling if true, and if it is, do you believe said soldiers speak for the entire Israeli government? Hamas’s atrocities are official policy.

              • DarkGamer
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                5 months ago

                Thanks for the link.

                So one officer 7 years ago, who had the book thrown at him for his crimes by Israel. His actions are clearly opposed by his government and he was punished for his behavior. This isn’t the smoking gun @matcha_addict was implying it is.

                Do you think Hamas will punish its own rapists, murderers, and kidnappers?

                • @money_loo@1337lemmy.com
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                  195 months ago

                  The officer, whose name remains barred from publication, served in the Defense Ministry’s Civil Administration, which is tasked with overseeing the day-to-day management of the West Bank. The officer, a major, was responsible for issuing permits for Palestinians to enter and work in Israel, a position of power that he repeatedly exploited in order to receive sexual favors from Palestinians.

                  Wow, you sure dismissed that as an isolated incident real quick!

                  I’m sure it never happened again now that they caught the only guy who got caught for doing it!

                • @matcha_addictOP
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                  145 months ago

                  Hamas is not a state or government. It is a militia to fight occupation. It is nowhere near as organized as Israel with its governing body. You cannot equate the two.

                  Israel does not oppose this. There are mountains of evidence of Israelis torturing and raping children, pregnant women and elderly Palestinians. There is mountains of evidence of Palestinians being burned alive, or forced to destroy their own homes with their bare hands. The magnitude of cruelty is unmatched.

                  Do you want more evidence? I am happy to provide. But it seems you reject it even when presented evidence.

                • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆
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                  15 months ago

                  That’s just one of countless examples from a two seconds of googling. It’s the height of intellectual dishonesty to try and frame it as an isolated incident.

            • @matcha_addictOP
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              35 months ago

              Hamas’ official policy is resisting occupation and massacre, not committing it.

        • @lolcatnip@reddthat.com
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          135 months ago

          while trying to minimize civilian deaths

          If that’s what they’re trying to do, they really fucking suck at it.

          And the motivation, methods, intentions, and circumstances don’t matter a bit to the victims and their loved ones.

        • @matcha_addictOP
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          65 months ago

          The soundness of your argument should not depend on your stance. It is a common tactic to state that you are “pro-X” but criticize X, because people are more likely to sympathize with your criticism that way. The commenter you replied to is simply reminding us of this.

    • @istdaslol@feddit.de
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      -355 months ago

      This is nothing new. Often the actions of Israel are portrayed in the worst way possible. As a quick example: The UN considers everyone under 18 a child, hamas starts recruiting at 14. When the IDF does a raid and kills one of these members the Arab media screams „Isreal has slaughtered children“

      This is why I switched to being more pro Israel

      • @Veltoss@lemmy.world
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        265 months ago

        Ignoring of course the countless children they kill who aren’t part of hamas. The ratio of children to adults killed by Israel can only be reached by doing it on purpose.

        You “switching sides” because you don’t like the media reporting on these murders is a joke and I can only assume a lie, because it doesn’t make sense.

        The media reporting stuff doesn’t change what is happening nor the morals and ethics involved. Silly to blame the media for you choosing to support the murder of innocents.